Spellcleavers and/or Paladins, I'd love to get your advice! My friend is a 45 Paladin and he wants to run spellcleave groups to level. When he puts together a group, he's typically the healer and has a rougher experience than holy/disc priest. Partially, because he can't give mage's bubble, so when they go in to nova them they get deleted sometimes. In addition, when pulls get shaky, it's hard for him to keep up multiple targets.

What tips would you give a paladin to maximize their success in a Spellcleave group? Any tips are appreciated. Some initial questions that come to mind:

-> Should he run holy or prot?

-> Is there any special type of gear that would best equip him for the runs.

-> What is aura is the best in Spellcleave groups?

Appreciate the help in advance!

- Anonymous Alliance Rattlegore Player

- Holy. Namely 12% extra healing and holy crit.
- Int/healing gear
- Devotion

There's no other benefit in going prot than giving the mages BoKings, which will add like 200 hp? to their hp pool. And the only thing he can do is to become a better healer. Start pre-casting heals even before the mages start getting hit if he's not already doing that.

Also, if the mages are getting deleted it's usually their own fault.

If you get the pulls down, coordinate your frost nova rotation and stack on each other with imp blizzard you shouldn't really be getting hit.

Yeah not sure if there is anything special here, I have been in plenty of both melee- and spell-cleave groups and there was never any issues. BoK is quite useful, and you add a bit of sustain to the game, at the cost of less damage, and aoe healing compared to priest.

At this stage in the game, its no issue what so ever i think.

Relik wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Also, if the mages are getting deleted it's usually their own fault.

This soooo much, frost mages doing AOE should more or less be able to keep themselves alive, with no or very very minimal hits. They have a talent to increase range of nova, mana shield, ice armor, blink, etc. They shouldnt even get hit.

Word of caution, and a huge rant on my part:
When I "Tanked" these groups, 9/10 mages/locks/etc just simply couldnt grasp how its done. I cant tell you how many idiots walked right up to the pull, nova'd and then just started blizzarding while standing within mele range of the mobs. If they didnt run into the center of the group and get deleted by mele instantly, they nova'd just outside mele range 5-10 yards outside, and followed it up with a blizzard standing only 10 yards outside of melee range. The moment nova broke (Which doesnt last long) they got pummled to death before the first nova was over.

Somehow, people cant stack to pull all the mobs into a single direction, even after you tell them to... 3x mages all seem to in 3x completely different spots, the mobs split into 2 or 3 groups and run into different directions. Then, no mobs are dead and all 3 mages/locks are oom and they proceed to run around like chickens with their heads cut off for 3 minutes while they wait for passive in combat mana regen.

I am convinced that these stupid spell cleave groups are a waste of time and effort and repair. I actually timed ZF runs with failed spellcleave groups, vs a normal traditional 1 pull at a time run. Dungeon runs are faster, more xp/h, and less deaths/repair bills doing it normal with no deaths, than spell cleave groups that die 2x or 3x times.

I got lucky, joined a really group group on my first try at it, everyone knew what they were doing and xp/h was through the roof with no deaths. Smooth and clean, blew my mind. Never got another group like that, no one wanted to join in voice chat, mages would arcane explosion the entire scarab room while I was mana'ing up and then lose their colletive minds because tank couldn't pull threat off 30+ scarabs in < 0.01 seconds before they started floor tanking with their face.

I now actually tell dps that I pug with that if they AOE a pull while any single elite mob is still alive, I will kick them from group before the pull is even complete (And I have, tank shortages favor the tanks :D I only tank a group if if I formed it, or I am handed party leader immediately after joining and before I run to dungeon). My runs now go smooth, fast, very few deaths, very little down time between pulls because the healers I run with know wtf down ranking is, know to drink immediately after every pull no matter what their mana bar is, and I HoT myself before every pull.

Tell your friend that if their goal is to level via dungeoning, I recommend to either tank or heal, and to add competant people of the opposit roll to their friends list. DPS is usually easy to find, getting a healer that knows how to downrank, even at level 35, is rare somehow. Getting a tank that can LoS pull, or use cooldowns selectively is rare somehow.

/rant over

beached wrote: ↑

4 years ago

I am convinced that these stupid spell cleave groups are a waste of time and effort and repair. I actually timed ZF runs with failed spellcleave groups, vs a normal traditional 1 pull at a time run. Dungeon runs are faster, more xp/h, and less deaths/repair bills doing it normal with no deaths, than spell cleave groups that die 2x or 3x times.

I try to avoid these groups, really they don't need my help anyway. But from what I know about spell cleave groups, they really need to be well executed for them to be efficient. They're usually run in teams of people that have practiced together as a unit and are familiar with the method. They target specific areas of specific dungeons in specific level ranges, and they don't die. Because when they start to wipe, they do become less efficient. If you're running into random groups trying to do spellcleave and they're this disorganized, and they're trying to do full instance runs, then they're probably just trying to copy something they saw on the internet without understanding what they're doing. These aren't real spell cleave groups, they're just people playing sloppy.

beached wrote: ↑

4 years ago

When I "Tanked" these groups, 9/10 mages/locks/etc just simply couldnt grasp how its done.

As soon as a tank was brought to a spell cleave, they probably werent that competent to begin with. They were acknowledging that they couldnt adequately do the strategy and were burning XP per hour to allow themselves the ability to mess up. The results with a tank are far more consistent but far less rewarding.

beached wrote: ↑

4 years ago

I am convinced that these stupid spell cleave groups are a waste of time and effort and repair.

Yea, I would agree with this. If you werent practicing prelaunch and if you dont have a very well coordinated group, it probably wont be worthwhile. There is no such thing as a pug spell cleave. Conversely we have 3 mages in our guild that have been 3 manning ZF runs with really good results. They arent using a healer and they arent using 5 players. A good team has the potential to make a lot of xp per hour but very few will be capable. To be fair, they have had their 60s raiding since week 2 and have a tremendous amount of gold, so their mages are twinked, full consumed and burning pots on every pull. They are leveling incredibly fast though.