Your way of thinking is what got us to ask for a classic version.

Blizzard listening to this small but so damn LOUD voices asking for changes everytime they're bored got us LFG/LFR, flying mounts, portals everywhere, transmogs and transformed WoW into a giant circus.

Feeling bored with the first version of the game? Go to retail.

This is like asking for the season1 of a TVseries just for 2 months later, requesting that the character from season7 needs to be put into season1. Make up your mind.

Being so defensive about WoW is what lead to retail. Statements like "You are bored, therefore this game isn't for you." Players who chugged the Kool-Aid and didn't hold Blizzard accountable for bad game design decisions over the years.

Classic WoW is a fast tracked version of Vanilla. The itemization, mechanics, and patch level are all sped up. Content updates are what keep the playerbase stable, that is why Blizzard has major expansion releases or patch cycles. That is why they are releasing Dire Maul already. I consider Classic WoW the best version of the game, but it does suffer from a lack content in its later phases. I think some players ignore just how many players have already reached the endgame. Level 60, Epic Mount, BiS, Raid Gear, etc.. The game is just so much faster now.

I have no doubt that Phase 2 and 3 will be highly popular. However, I am concerned about the state of the game in later Phases. Once you get your fill of Battlegrounds and raiding, what else is there to do in later phases? More raiding with AQ/Naxx? More epics so you can replace your epics? This when the population will likely start to tank. I speak from experience, considering I quit Vanilla in early 2006 due to boredom and lack of content. The only thing Blizzard added to the game was more raids. It was really unfortunate.

Nowhere have I suggested anything about flying mounts or portals, since those features shrink the world and hasten the gameplay even more. One of my withstanding criticisms of Classic WoW is how Blizzard made so much of then content irrelevant once players reach level 60. You have a 30 zone world with two continents, yet the endgame playerbase is confined to only a few of these zones. (Plaguelands, Silithus, Un'Goro, Azshara, Blackrock Mountain, Winterspring). Blizzard basically made the rest of Azeroth irrelevant. Once you outleveled a zone, there was little reason to return there. The zones in Classic are way too linear, and this ultimately shrunk the world.

Why weren't there level 60 quest chains that took you back to Hillsbrad and Alterac Mountains? Why were zones like the Hinterlands or Tanaris pointless once you outleveled them? Why was most of Azeroth basically discarded once players outleveled it. Most of the zones became places you just fly over. You used to have to travel to Alterac, Arathi, and Ashenvale to do Battlegrounds. It brought players out of the city and back into the world. This is exactly what Classic needed, more reasons to revisit lower level zones. The longer Classic goes on, the emptier the world will feel as more players reach level 60. The failure of the game was the over-reliance on endgame instanced content, especially when there was this open world to adventure in.

MurlocShapeshifter wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Why weren't there level 60 quest chains that took you back to Hillsbrad and Alterac Mountains? Why were zones like the Hinterlands or Tanaris pointless once you outleveled them?

I'm not sure it's a good idea to funnel level 60 characters back into lower level zones on PVP servers. It's already a mess trying to quest outside on my server which has a heavy horde population bias as it is, and that's with zones primarily filled with similar leveled characters. If there were legitimate reasons for level 60s to start roaming around doing stuff in the level 20 zones, everybody who didn't speed level to 60 would get roflstomped into oblivion by all the enemy 60's who were questing next to them.

This also doesn't seem to make sense on PVE servers either. Content for level 60 characters implies appropriate level mobs for level 60 characters to interact with, which implies swaths of level 60 mobs intermixed throughout level 20 zones. As much as I like Stitches and Mor'Ladim in Duskwood, there is a big difference between a couple of mobs 10 levels higher than a player starts a zone for zone flavor vs entire regions of mobs 40 levels higher than when a character starts a zone.

For people complaining of boredom: If you want a fresh experience, try playing the game alongside a brand new player and doing things at their pace. This time around my wife and I have been playing, and she is experiencing things for the first time. I have a 30ish druid I play exclusively with her and I am having a blast. It's way more fun than my nearly 50 priest I play when I solo.

I really cannot believe people are complaining asking for the phases to be delivered quicker. It's highly likely that this is the very last time you'll ever get to play this game with these phases, as it was back then, with this many new players. Once all the phases come out, unless they do server resets you'll never get to experience the rush to 60 on a fresh server with fresh players again unless you go back to private servers, where you're only going to play with other veterans.

I have done plenty of playing on established servers where the low-level zones are devoid of players, and it SUCKS. I have been taking great pains to stay with the pack and have been loving the instant groups for out-of-the-way instances like Uldaman or Blackfathom Deeps.

Honestly, with the exception of the speedrunners, the people who rushed to 60 to do the same thing they've been doing for 15 years really did themselves a disservice. This was the last time you'll have to capture that nostalgia, and you picked the wrong wave to surf.

Frosted wrote: ↑

4 years ago

For people complaining of boredom: If you want a fresh experience, try playing the game alongside a brand new player and doing things at their pace. This time around my wife and I have been playing, and she is experiencing things for the first time. I have a 30ish druid I play exclusively with her and I am having a blast. It's way more fun than my nearly 50 priest I play when I solo.

I really cannot believe people are complaining asking for the phases to be delivered quicker. It's highly likely that this is the very last time you'll ever get to play this game with these phases, as it was back then, with this many new players. Once all the phases come out, unless they do server resets you'll never get to experience the rush to 60 on a fresh server with fresh players again unless you go back to private servers, where you're only going to play with other veterans.

I have done plenty of playing on established servers where the low-level zones are devoid of players, and it SUCKS. I have been taking great pains to stay with the pack and have been loving the instant groups for out-of-the-way instances like Uldaman or Blackfathom Deeps.

Honestly, with the exception of the speedrunners, the people who rushed to 60 to do the same thing they've been doing for 15 years really did themselves a disservice. This was the last time you'll have to capture that nostalgia, and you picked the wrong wave to surf.

This is the whole point that I am making. The strength of Classic is the World itself. All of the zones are populated, because players actually have to level through them. The issue is that eventually more and more players reach level 60, and most of the zones in the game become obsolete. There needed to be more reasons and incentives for max level players to return to these zones.

Frosted wrote: ↑

4 years ago

For people complaining of boredom: If you want a fresh experience, try playing the game alongside a brand new player and doing things at their pace. This time around my wife and I have been playing, and she is experiencing things for the first time. I have a 30ish druid I play exclusively with her and I am having a blast. It's way more fun than my nearly 50 priest I play when I solo.

This is so true. I introduced a friend who was big into D2 and D3 and other stuff, but had never played WoW before. She's been keeping up pretty good so far and it's been awesome playing next to somebody who is 100% new to the entire thing. Nothing is new to my old jaded eyes, but seeing another person go through everything for the first time is really cool.

Frosted wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Honestly, with the exception of the speedrunners, the people who rushed to 60 to do the same thing they've been doing for 15 years really did themselves a disservice. This was the last time you'll have to capture that nostalgia, and you picked the wrong wave to surf.

There's a lot of nuance to this. There are a lot of players who did come from private servers and there's no nostalgia involved at all. Being at the front of the pack and pushing progression is the entire point of the game for a lot of people. Just because you want to play slow doesn't mean this is the One True Way to play the game. I'm around the same level as you, I'm also ~51 right now and I'm in the same boat as you. I am trying to keep up with the bulk of the playerbase so I can stay where the activity is. I've played a little bit on private servers which are dead in the starting zones, and that is just the nature of Classic servers as they mature. This is a linear game.

Content needs to be released fast enough to keep the progression players interested. As you've already alluded to, the bulk of the playerbase is going to move at a certain pace regardless of how fast the content is released. If somebody is level 50 a good six months after the launch of the game then it's not going to matter whether BWL is released or not. But for everybody who is already through Onyxia and MC, the longer it takes to get to BWL the more those players are going to start dropping off and quitting.

I think there is a lot of sentiment about 'please stop playing so fast, I am having so much fun in Classic and I don't want this to be over too soon'. I know I got a little existential fear where I want to stay in Classic as long as I can because I love the game and don't want it to end. And that's just part of the deal with a game that is carved in stone, no new content, frozen in time. Eventually we run out of things to do. And we want the game to last forever, so it's scary when people are farming raid content within days of it being released. But there's no way around it. Eventually all the content is available, and either the game stagnates, stops being vanilla (new expansions, new content, re-released older expansions, etc), or fresh servers are released so everybody can start over again. I would prefer occasional fresh server releases so every year or two we'd get the chance to start over on that there F R E S H. Because I like Vanilla, and am not really interested in things being changed or anything being added.

But I'm not worrying about this for now. I have no control over the pace of other people. I have control over my own pace. I wanna get into progression as soon as I can and see how far I can get with raiding. And I'll see where that takes me.

MurlocShapeshifter wrote: ↑

4 years ago

This is the whole point that I am making. The strength of Classic is the World itself. All of the zones are populated, because players actually have to level through them. The issue is that eventually more and more players reach level 60, and most of the zones in the game become obsolete. There needed to be more reasons and incentives for max level players to return to these zones.

Man you sound awfully familiar.

So what about these points?

Pippina wrote: ↑

4 years ago

I'm not sure it's a good idea to funnel level 60 characters back into lower level zones on PVP servers. It's already a mess trying to quest outside on my server which has a heavy horde population bias as it is, and that's with zones primarily filled with similar leveled characters. If there were legitimate reasons for level 60s to start roaming around doing stuff in the level 20 zones, everybody who didn't speed level to 60 would get roflstomped into oblivion by all the enemy 60's who were questing next to them.

This also doesn't seem to make sense on PVE servers either. Content for level 60 characters implies appropriate level mobs for level 60 characters to interact with, which implies swaths of level 60 mobs intermixed throughout level 20 zones. As much as I like Stitches and Mor'Ladim in Duskwood, there is a big difference between a couple of mobs 10 levels higher than a player starts a zone for zone flavor vs entire regions of mobs 40 levels higher than when a character starts a zone.

I swear, if the answer involves treasure chests, air drops, or bonus PVP objective zones...

Pippina wrote: ↑

4 years ago

MurlocShapeshifter wrote: ↑

4 years ago

This is the whole point that I am making. The strength of Classic is the World itself. All of the zones are populated, because players actually have to level through them. The issue is that eventually more and more players reach level 60, and most of the zones in the game become obsolete. There needed to be more reasons and incentives for max level players to return to these zones.

Man you sound awfully familiar.

So what about these points?

Pippina wrote: ↑

4 years ago

I'm not sure it's a good idea to funnel level 60 characters back into lower level zones on PVP servers. It's already a mess trying to quest outside on my server which has a heavy horde population bias as it is, and that's with zones primarily filled with similar leveled characters. If there were legitimate reasons for level 60s to start roaming around doing stuff in the level 20 zones, everybody who didn't speed level to 60 would get roflstomped into oblivion by all the enemy 60's who were questing next to them.

This also doesn't seem to make sense on PVE servers either. Content for level 60 characters implies appropriate level mobs for level 60 characters to interact with, which implies swaths of level 60 mobs intermixed throughout level 20 zones. As much as I like Stitches and Mor'Ladim in Duskwood, there is a big difference between a couple of mobs 10 levels higher than a player starts a zone for zone flavor vs entire regions of mobs 40 levels higher than when a character starts a zone.

I swear, if the answer involves treasure chests, air drops, or bonus PVP objective zones...

The world becomes empty as more players hit 60. The 30 or so zones get whittled down to 5 or so. This is because max level content is basically restricted to a few zones. Just like how Outland was. There could have been ways to keep the zones relevant. Your suggestions about air drops and stuff seem offbase, but something needed to be done to keep most of the zones from becoming obsolete.

MurlocShapeshifter wrote: ↑

4 years ago

The world becomes empty as more players hit 60. The 30 or so zones get whittled down to 5 or so. This is because max level content is basically restricted to a few zones. Just like how Outland was. There could have been ways to keep the zones relevant. Your suggestions about air drops and stuff seem offbase, but something needed to be done from keeping most of the zones obsolete.

You are deflecting. You want to turn low-level zones into content for max level characters. How do you address my points about the consequences this brings? How do you resolve adding level 60 mobs and level 60 enemy characters to level 20 leveling zones like the Hillsbrad foothills? Or any low level zone?

Pippina wrote: ↑

4 years ago

MurlocShapeshifter wrote: ↑

4 years ago

The world becomes empty as more players hit 60. The 30 or so zones get whittled down to 5 or so. This is because max level content is basically restricted to a few zones. Just like how Outland was. There could have been ways to keep the zones relevant. Your suggestions about air drops and stuff seem offbase, but something needed to be done from keeping most of the zones obsolete.

You are deflecting. You want to turn low-level zones into content for max level characters. How do you address my points about the consequences this brings? How do you resolve adding level 60 mobs and level 60 enemy characters to level 20 leveling zones like the Hillsbrad foothills? Or any low level zone?

The mobs could be tucked away in certain parts of the zone to not interfere with levelers. There could be random spawns that appear daily or weekly. Why do the best herbs and veins only spawn in high level zones? Why not have them in all contested zones? Why not have endgame quest chains that require players to collect items across all the zones. Why not make the world feel more alive like it did when you were leveling. Instead at 60, you just flyover 80% of the zones. This design decision wasn't just detrimental to the expansions, but to Classic as well. You used to have to travel to Alterac, Ashenvale, and Arathi for BGs. In 1.12 you just teleport into the instance. This design mentality is what doomed WoW. The World is the game. The zones should exist for more reasons than just leveling.

> Why does high level content appear in high level zones?

I didn't ask how you would bring level 60 players into low level zones redridge. I asked how you would resolve the consequences of turning low level questing zones into level 60 content. I'm going to be levelling my warrior and a hunter at some point. I don't want the levelling zones full of roaming level 60s.

Pippina wrote: ↑

4 years ago

> Why does high level content appear in high level zones?

I didn't ask how you would bring level 60 players into low level zones redridge. I asked how you would resolve the consequences of turning low level questing zones into level 60 content. I'm going to be levelling my warrior and a hunter at some point. I don't want the levelling zones full of roaming level 60s.

I agree that having max level players roaming these zones all the time could be trouble on PvP servers. There could be one or two that have max level content and are on rotation however. This would keep max level players active in all the zones at different times.

morbidmike wrote: ↑

4 years ago

farming gold and Alliance dogs keeps me busy

Well, my prediction was fucking spot on. Welcome back to the forums @RedridgeGnoll/@MurlocShapeshifter! We'll have plenty of entertainment now!

MurlocShapeshifter wrote: ↑

4 years ago

I agree that having max level players roaming these zones all the time could be trouble on PvP servers. There could be one or two that have max level content and are on rotation however. This would keep max level players active in all the zones at different times.

That would suck donkey balls. I don't want any level 60's in my low level zones while I'm trying to level. I want level 60 characters to stay in their level 60 zones. Rotating out of different low level zones doesn't change the fact that you're trying to remove low level zones from low level characters.

This also seems of minimal impact in terms of max level content.

> I'm bored at level 60
> Raiding is boring
> Battlegrounds are boring
> I wish I could pick flowers in Hillsbrad on a rotating basis

I mean, if you like herbalism then go collect herbs... If you want to see the low level zones again, come back with a low level character.

Pippina wrote: ↑

4 years ago

MurlocShapeshifter wrote: ↑

4 years ago

I agree that having max level players roaming these zones all the time could be trouble on PvP servers. There could be one or two that have max level content and are on rotation however. This would keep max level players active in all the zones at different times.

That would suck donkey balls. I don't want any level 60's in my low level zones while I'm trying to level. I want level 60 characters to stay in their level 60 zones. Rotating out of different low level zones doesn't change the fact that you're trying to remove low level zones from low level characters.

This also seems of minimal impact in terms of max level content.

> I'm bored at level 60
> Raiding is boring
> Battlegrounds are boring
> I wish I could pick flowers in Hillsbrad on a rotating basis

I mean, if you like herbalism then go collect herbs... If you want to see the low level zones again, come back with a low level character.

The world basically shrinks from 30 to 7 zones once you reach max level. Sound familiar? See Outland or Northrend. This is a design flaw of the game. I am not encouraging level 60's controlling leveling zones and interrupting levelers. I am suggesting that the leveling zones should be something more than just flyover zones. The game lets you just fly over 80% of the world. See Retail. Finding creative ways to reuse leveling zones is so important. Blizzard did this to some extent. Zul'Gurub in STV. AV in Alterac. AB in Arathi Highlands. WSG in Ashenvale. The game needs more of that. Otherwise, you end up with a game where players fly or teleport over most of the world.

The world does not shrink, your character progresses beyond the low level zones as you march on through the game. You never have access to simultaneous relevant content within all 30 zones at any level. I don't have access to EPL at level 1 and I don't expect to be questing in Elwynn at level 60. The game is designed around linear progress flow, and once you reach the maximum level you do activities appropriate for your level. If you wish to re-visit low level content, then you make a new character and progress through that low level content again. I don't expect to be running the Deadmines at level 60 and expect the content to be relevant.

You still haven't come up with a way to deal with funneling large quantities of level 60 characters through low level zones other than 'lol go level somewhere else my weekly air-drop bonus PVP treasure chest spawn is here, Redridge is now level 60 world PVP zone'.

Pippina wrote: ↑

4 years ago

The world does not shrink, your character progresses beyond the low level zones as you march on through the game. You never have access to simultaneous relevant content within all 30 zones at any level. I don't have access to EPL at level 1 and I don't expect to be questing in Elwynn at level 60. The game is designed around linear progress flow, and once you reach the maximum level you do activities appropriate for your level. If you wish to re-visit low level content, then you make a new character and progress through that low level content again. I don't expect to be running the Deadmines at level 60 and expect the content to be relevant.

You still haven't come up with a way to deal with funneling large quantities of level 60 characters through low level zones other than 'lol go level somewhere else my weekly air-drop bonus PVP treasure chest spawn is here, Redridge is now level 60 world PVP zone'.

The state of Azeroth at max level is easy to understand. It is mostly dead. The more players that reach level 60, the emptier the world will become. When you are leveling you have 30 zones to progress through. When you are level 60 you have about 5 zones to progress through. Blizzard designed Azeroth as a questing theme park, where the zones simply existed as quest hubs for players to level through. These design decisions have haunted WoW since Vanilla and helped create the single player experience that is retail. There are many issues that make the World mostly irrelevant at max level. There are so many flight paths that you can basically just fly over almost every zone to reach your destination. It is almost the equivalent of having a flying mount.

There are many ways to bring players back into the leveling zones. When Battlegrounds were released, players had to travel back through these zones in order to participate in battlegrounds. This made the world more dynamic and lively. It didn't destroy the leveling environment for other players in those zones. As I said there needs to be restrictions and limitations, so that max level players do not destroy the leveling content in these zones. I don't understand what you are talking about with air drop bonuses or something, but I do think that there might be some better solutions. Look at Strangelthorn Vale, it is a good example of what I am suggesting. It is one of the most populated leveling zones, but it also attracts max level players with Zul'Gurub and Gurubashi Arena and the Booty Bay Boat. Why do you think WoW was always derided as a theme park? Once you finish a zone you are onto the next one with no reason to ever return. Making the game too reliant on instances began in Vanilla. Retail is all about that now to the point that even the world zones themselves are phased/instanced. You want to make the world feel alive.Tthe world is the heart of the game afterall.

MurlocShapeshifter wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Plaguelands, Silithus, Un'Goro, Azshara, Blackrock Mountain, Winterspring

Add:
-Felwood
-all the regions for iron farming ( arathi, AV, hillsbrad )
-probably other regions for herbalism farming.
-Desolace for Maraudon
-Swamp of sorrows for The Sunken Temple
-Moonglade
-Feralas for Dire Maul
-Stranglethorn for ZG and Arena (and Iron).
-Fishing all around the world
-Cooking mats farming allaround the world
-Pets hunting around the world
-Probably some farming areas in blasted lands
-Onyxia lair in dustwallow marsh

And those are only what comes to my mind in this moment. There are probably plenty others.

Don't worry @Hinien, redridge posts this thread with some consistency, this time under a pseudonym, so you have time to collate a solid list of reasons for the next thread. I'm not sure why he continues this battle, on a classic wow forum made for enthusiasts. He doesn't like classic wow, and he will try his damn hardest to make sure we all know how WRONG blizzard were.

If you can find a forum from end of Wotlk/Pre Cata, you will fit right in.

That's what you want, Cataclysm after Classic.

I honestly can't understand how your brain worked around asking for changes on a Locked Version of a game created 15 years ago that everyone agreed they wanted to play again.

Last words in this thread which i think is ridiculous:

If you're bored, make another class;

If you're bored, try retail;

If you're bored, try another game.

I am trying to ignore these type of posts but it's hard. Those who rush to level 60 and then complain that there's nothing to do should not play this game or quit after hitting 60. It is not supposed to be rushed with dungeon/elite mob spams. This is not Fortnite or Apex Legends where devs release new content every week to satisfy the rushers.

I just had an awesome idea:
Mobs should not have fixed levels but adjust their stats to the players. This way every player can do content everywhere whenever they want.
Also certain quests should made repeatable, so players have a reason to revisit zones instead of finishing them.
We could call these systems "adjusting" and "regional quests" or something similar.

Samaraner wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Mobs should not have fixed levels but adjust their stats to the players.

Wasn't this already on retail? Level 100 pig next to Orgrimmar is plain stupid. I hated it.