yeah 6 months ago.Black Monarch wrote: ↑4 years agoNo, they're not. Have you even PLAYED modern WoW recently? Half of the things you listed don't exist.
let's go through the list.
this is definitely true. no one uses cc in dungeons except high end M+.
very true to modern design goals. it doesn't always work perfectly (Shamans here is looking at you), but the goal is everyone roughly equal.
even bloody rogues have aoe. very true to modern design. heck i can't think of a class without some form of aoe or cleave. as for cc, again, everyone has some form of cc.
this is definitely true. each new raid tier they up the rewards from dungeons, world quests, etc.Black Monarch wrote: ↑4 years agorelease of one patch includes plenty of catchup mechanics so you can skip previous content? check
if you need me to elaborate on this, heaven help you.
LFR and normal mode are gigantic jokes.
heck even raids have an automated grouping and teleportation nowadays (LFR).
i can literally group pull 7-8 mobs at once and aoe them down. i'm rarely, if ever in threat of dieing while leveling, the game shows me on the map where i even need to go.
this is pretty simple. no real quest chains tied with access to dungeons and raids anymore. just go jump in.
but yeah "half doesn't exist".
except you know. we just check marked all of them.
Talk to your doctor about being put on an antipsychotic.
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This thread is a dumpster fire with @RedridgeGnoll and @Black Monarch pouring fuel from every direction. Some insane and deluded posts throughout with strange assumptions made. Classic Vanilla is the only safe bet. From there on out it gets sketchy. Appease people, release TBC onwards servers, while also rolling out a classic+ patch by patch progression servers. The only problem becomes the insane fracturing of the playerbase. They will milk vanilla classic in its current form for as long as possible. One big solid playerbase. From there on its going to get messy.
Lvl 60
Lvl 35
let the players design their own quests and bosses items etc.It's the only way. Warcraft 3 had a map editor and the custom maps are still played to this day
Don't increase level cap
have each server vote for what gets implemented on each realm(each realm will have different new quests/new items ) so each realm will be more unique
create versions of raids/dungeons at level 10-60(grim batol 40 man,uldum,Gnomeregan Depths,Ironforge Depths,Ragefire Depths,Un'Goro Volcano,Emerald Nightmare,Caverns of Time,Hyjal(present time) opened,a Felwood dungeon,a thousand needless dungeon,timbermaw hold as an instance;the furbolgs are under attack by demons and the players must save/assist them,more quests in azshara,stormwind prison,Stonetalon depths;more dryads and kotgs,redridge mountains dungeon,pirate dungeon,murloc dungeon.
quests in the area between dun morogh and wetlands
more altar of storms quests
more quests in dustwallow marsh
longer quest chains with better item rewards during leveling
more talent points through epic quest chains (scepter of shifting sands level)
new zones eventually (zones like timeless isle)
human hunter
18 slot bags
trinkets that increase proffesions by +5 +10
Here are the ones that are:JollyResolve6 wrote: ↑4 years agoSo which of his points do you think aren't accurate?
You said half of them aren't in a previous post and I'm genuinely curious as to which ones they are.
The rest are either demonstrably false or not empirically meaningful.multiple difficulty settings for raids? check
Automated Grouping with teleports to dungeons? check
not having to attune to raids or dungeons? check
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TBC is overrated. WOTLK even more so. Both servers would likely fail.
Bait/10.RedridgeGnoll wrote: ↑4 years agoTBC is overrated. WOTLK even more so. Both servers would likely fail.
You can't call yourself a real WoW forum without having local trolls.ariba wrote: ↑4 years agoBait/10.RedridgeGnoll wrote: ↑4 years agoTBC is overrated. WOTLK even more so. Both servers would likely fail.
Vennrick - Human Warrior
Keatts- Human Rogue
Grobbulus - US
I'd like to know too.JollyResolve6 wrote: ↑4 years agoWhich ones are demonstrably false, specifically?Black Monarch wrote: ↑4 years agoHere are the ones that are:JollyResolve6 wrote: ↑4 years agoSo which of his points do you think aren't accurate?
You said half of them aren't in a previous post and I'm genuinely curious as to which ones they are.
The rest are either demonstrably false or not empirically meaningful.multiple difficulty settings for raids? check
Automated Grouping with teleports to dungeons? check
not having to attune to raids or dungeons? check
Hes entitled to his opinion. I personally feel wrath is extremely overrated. It had a great story, and Ulduar.ariba wrote: ↑4 years agoBait/10.RedridgeGnoll wrote: ↑4 years agoTBC is overrated. WOTLK even more so. Both servers would likely fail.
This first time I really gave up on WoW was during WotLK. Came back to it late and had stopped raiding. I didn't hate it, but I didn't rate it. Story was great, the lich king novel is absolutely fantastic and i recommend every WoW fan read it. The only book I enjoyed more was The Last Guardian (Medivh in Karazhan with young Khadgar as an apprentice, read it!!!)
Lvl 60 Lvl 35
Perhaps my favorite is the implication that you can just AoE spam dungeons and ignore mechanics the whole way... as if Rukharan in Skyreach wasn't straight murdering tanks who didn't know what active mitigation was. As if the healer adepts in that same dungeon didn't have to be marked and dpsed down first in order to get past every pack of trash mobs. As if groups didn't spend HOURS wiping over and over again on Heroic Nitrogg Thundertower because that fight was so chaotic and the mechanics were so unforgiving. As if Return to Karazhan wasn't a rude awakening for all of us who thought we had a handle on heroic Legion dungeons.
Although, I did manage to successfully tank a lot of Panda dungeons back when I had no idea WTF I was doing, so it's quite possible that dungeons did have an "ignore mechanics, apply keyboard to forehead" phase some time between BC and WoD.
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For me they have to do these things:
1) Keep max level 60 and all the leveling, reputations, dungeon and raids relevant
2) Do NOT add LFG/LFR or flying mounts.
Some ideas:
1) Arenas, some of the other battlegrounds.
2) New zones with diferent reputations, monsters, etc... (new items need to be balanced with the older ones, like u cant have a better potion than the older best potion).
3) New dungeons and raid, same as the new zones. maybe with gear for diferent specs or more dmg focused gear (like shamans t3 is full healing, they could add a t3 for elemental / enhancement, same with other classes, while for example adding like 3.25 for pure dps classes).
5) MAYBE an improved pvp reward system (same thing, nothing can be better than high warlord gear, that could still be obtainable).
6) Some sort of guild base, like an instanced base with buildings and shit, they could have like an arena or pvp area, some area with trainers, a cool bar/inn,more social than utility, also no teleport there (only maybe like a new 1h hearthstone just for it but maaaybe).
Just don't lose on anything we already have and add balanced stuff.
They also could host torunments like the Runescape Deadman
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I am just being honest here.
If Blizzard chooses to bypass TBC and add content to Classic, then vertical progression must continue. Old content needs to be trivialized. That is just the reality.
I suspect Classic content phases to be cleared so fast, even the somewhat casual players will demand new content.RedridgeGnoll wrote: ↑4 years agoI am just being honest here.
If Blizzard chooses to bypass TBC and add content to Classic, then vertical progression must continue. Old content needs to be trivialized. That is just the reality.
This could be the case, though the sheer time commitment to taking down AQ40 in Naxx is, while probably inevitable, still going to take a number of months. But I do ultimately agree that there will be an unignorable demand for new content while many players still won't have "finished" vanilla. So going to BC could be pretty inflammatory.Caperfin wrote: ↑4 years agoI suspect Classic content phases to be cleared so fast, even the somewhat casual players will demand new content.RedridgeGnoll wrote: ↑4 years agoI am just being honest here.
If Blizzard chooses to bypass TBC and add content to Classic, then vertical progression must continue. Old content needs to be trivialized. That is just the reality.
I was shocked to hear Blizz further trivialised their game by allowing 16 debuffs, earlier phase gearing, world buffs, layering, etc... on release.Gensei wrote: ↑4 years agoThis could be the case, though the sheer time commitment to taking down AQ40 in Naxx is, while probably inevitable, still going to take a number of months. But I do ultimately agree that there will be an unignorable demand for new content while many players still won't have "finished" vanilla. So going to BC could be pretty inflammatory.
P.S. The layering was probably inevitable but still yikes...
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I want Blizzard to release TBC so I can watch it fail. So players will finally realize that the design of the expansions are what killed World of Warcraft. The design decisions that plague Battle for Azeroth were born in The Burning Crusade.
I want The Burning Crusade after Classic, so that rose-tinted glasses can shatter. It will only further solidfy the greatness of Classic WoW.
I want them to remember how bland and boring Outland is.
I want them to remember the faction imbalance issues that were prevalent when Blood Elves joined the Horde.
I want them to remember how much better Horde was than Alliance.
I want them to remember how Warcraft lore was destroyed in The Burning Crusade.
I want them how to remember how everyone was stuck on a 7 zone continent, with zones that were often empty like Blade's Edge Mountains.
I want them to remember how flying mounts killed off World PvP and shrunk the 7 zone continent to an even smaller size.
I want them to remember how grindy the attunements were just to do a raid.
I want them to remember how uncreative TBC dungeons were.
I want them to remember how imbalanced Arena was.
I want them to remember how disruptive Resilience was to World PvP.
I want them to remember how everyone on both factions walked in circles around Shattrah all day.
I want them to remember how awful Shattrah was as a capital city.
I want them to remember what a chore raiding Black Temple for 1 year was.
I want the truth to be exposed.
I think we'd be forking the communities too much. There's going to be the Vanilla Crowd, TBC Crowd, and then the WoTLK crowd.
I'm more of the opinion of going a total different direction. Implement Kara into the level 60 meta, add new content tuned and itemized for level 60 etc.
And what about those that don't want classic plus and just want classic? Do they get shoved to the side again?pan0phobik wrote: ↑4 years agoI think we'd be forking the communities too much. There's going to be the Vanilla Crowd, TBC Crowd, and then the WoTLK crowd.
I'm more of the opinion of going a total different direction. Implement Kara into the level 60 meta, add new content tuned and itemized for level 60 etc.
And whose idea of additions get added? Yours? Joes? Tims? Natalies? Amandas?
See the issue?
You want new content tuned for 60 and thats it.
Joe doesnt care about raiding but wants arenas.
Tim wants a bunch of quality of life changes.
Natalie wants classes balanced like TBC and flying.
Amanda wants wrath and beyond balance and transmog.
Who do they make happy? You could end up with a bunch of crap you didn't even want
IMO that changes that took a wrong turn from classic were:
- Insta-porting to dungeons - I actually don't think the LFG tool was bad for the party-finding part of it. It's the fact that it teleported players to dungeons that took away from the game. Because when players have to run to dungeons, then that creates content in the world (via world pvp).
- Major cities in the expansion zones - this isolated new players from the high lvl players, which made the world feel more empty. No longer would you walk into a crowded ironforge. If they add zones (via re-releasing expansions, or going a new route), then they shouldn't add more major cities. Everything should still be centralized in the original vanilla major cities.
If it were up to me, they would take classic wow in a different direction than TBC-->etc. They would make contested zones "own-able" by each faction, so that world pvp mattered more. They tried to make world pvp matter by doing some weird shit with towers up in one of the plaguelands (basically bum-fuck nowhere) and no one gave a shit cuz it's just some tower game thing. There are lots of creative ways that they could make world pvp matter as far as horde/alliance competing for zones. And ownership of those zones could affect fight paths/vendors/questing/bragging rights/etc.
What a beautiful idea, you know how fun it would be when the current faction balance is mostly 2 horde to 1 ally or something similar (atleast eu pvp, some servers have it better than others but amassed its not looking nice)? And its not gonna change.Snoober wrote: ↑4 years ago
If it were up to me, they would take classic wow in a different direction than TBC-->etc. They would make contested zones "own-able" by each faction, so that world pvp mattered more. They tried to make world pvp matter by doing some weird shit with towers up in one of the plaguelands (basically bum-fuck nowhere) and no one gave a shit cuz it's just some tower game thing. There are lots of creative ways that they could make world pvp matter as far as horde/alliance competing for zones. And ownership of those zones could affect fight paths/vendors/questing/bragging rights/etc.
Also that map editor from wc3 to wow for public use?
People talking about runescape os development style, can you even imagine how long it would take for a community idea to reach the servers? Is it even possible to implement with wow engine, how many bugs new things possibly implement, community OUTRAGE REE when 6 months after the community vote passed blizz has to inform they havent found a way to implement it without breaking the game? List goes on and on.
Sometimes I can do nothing but stare at forum posts.
Okay Blizz are you really going to do it again? If people want TBC then make them the two or three servers that might be needed for them to play on. Please don't destroy the game again.
I wasn't preaching some fix-all suggestion. Just expressing my preference.Instinctz wrote: ↑4 years agoAnd what about those that don't want classic plus and just want classic? Do they get shoved to the side again?pan0phobik wrote: ↑4 years agoI think we'd be forking the communities too much. There's going to be the Vanilla Crowd, TBC Crowd, and then the WoTLK crowd.
I'm more of the opinion of going a total different direction. Implement Kara into the level 60 meta, add new content tuned and itemized for level 60 etc.
And whose idea of additions get added? Yours? Joes? Tims? Natalies? Amandas?
See the issue?
You want new content tuned for 60 and thats it.
Joe doesnt care about raiding but wants arenas.
Tim wants a bunch of quality of life changes.
Natalie wants classes balanced like TBC and flying.
Amanda wants wrath and beyond balance and transmog.
Who do they make happy? You could end up with a bunch of crap you didn't even want
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Snoober is right. Classic lacked better World PvP.Snoober wrote: ↑4 years agoIMO that changes that took a wrong turn from classic were:
- Insta-porting to dungeons - I actually don't think the LFG tool was bad for the party-finding part of it. It's the fact that it teleported players to dungeons that took away from the game. Because when players have to run to dungeons, then that creates content in the world (via world pvp).
- Major cities in the expansion zones - this isolated new players from the high lvl players, which made the world feel more empty. No longer would you walk into a crowded ironforge. If they add zones (via re-releasing expansions, or going a new route), then they shouldn't add more major cities. Everything should still be centralized in the original vanilla major cities.
If it were up to me, they would take classic wow in a different direction than TBC-->etc. They would make contested zones "own-able" by each faction, so that world pvp mattered more. They tried to make world pvp matter by doing some weird shit with towers up in one of the plaguelands (basically bum-fuck nowhere) and no one gave a shit cuz it's just some tower game thing. There are lots of creative ways that they could make world pvp matter as far as horde/alliance competing for zones. And ownership of those zones could affect fight paths/vendors/questing/bragging rights/etc.
