Okay, so whoever wrote that article from the first link you posted HAS to be straight up trolling.
What the fuck am I even looking at?
Fury Warrior is pretty much among the top 3 best DPS specs for all of Vanilla, so don't worry about that lol.
SoD RP-PvP
Thank you! I was looking at that list with combat rogue at the bottom just feeling like I was losing my mind
Resto druid in S tier because of mobility and stealth 
Also Paladins are better tanks than Druids apparently. Sure.
That website should honesty be embarrassed to host that article on it lol.
SoD RP-PvP
Sorry, I should have answered your question in OP @snickerwicket.
You can find actual raid compositions and their performance here:
https://legacyplayers.com/Raids/
(spoiler: you'll be seeing lots of brown)
Agreed. The person who wrote that article probably doesn't understand the slightest thing about World of Warcraft.
honestly in some ways i agree with rogues being at the bottom.snickerwicket wrote: ↑4 years agoThank you! I was looking at that list with combat rogue at the bottom just feeling like I was losing my mind
all rogues bring to a raid is dps.
that is it. we can't cc out of combat without risking death.
we have interrupt and some stuffs for the occasional add but our only real contribution fight to fight is dps.
and despite this, we get blown out of the water in dps by mages and warriors.
classes who
mage - bring food/water. provide post raid portals. arcane intellect and decurse.
warrior - can tank or dps. various shouts. sunder armor. etc
the best tool a raiding rogue has is our ability to practically ignore threat.
however this is largely mitigated because threat was so much less of a concern with 1.12 build.
yea but they still wouldn't be the lowest, as much as I hate to say it, everyone says my precious enhancement shaman will never be a contender
> arms warrior
> viable
But who was debuff limit?
Mortal Strike builds are my favorite to play as a warrior, but you can't even use it in raids because you start pushing useful debuffs off bosses as soon as you start using it due to the originally 8 and then 16 debuff limit in the original game.
> fire mage
Wasn't just about everything fire resistant once you start raiding? I'm not familiar much with what happens after MC, do raid bosses stop being fire resistant in later raid content?
> shadow priests
> raiding
Again, not with a 16 slot debuff limit...
One issue in clearing this up was that it was a mixed bag throughout vanilla. Warriors were always a tremendously powerful PvP class, and were initially just okay in PvE as dps, but dual wield fury was a really weak spec. People often went arms/MS or Slam spec with a 2h weapon. It later got buffs and talent updates, and by the end of vanilla, with better knowledge on itemization and the buffs, fury warrior dps was very strong.
An original WoW developer who was head of class balance said that if not for BC on the horizon, they would have nerfed warrior dps in a later 1.XX patch. Since we're inheriting the class balance as of 1.12, warrior dps is very strong. If you go to Wowhead's character planner, and only look at Phase 1 gear, you'll find that much of the gear that is best in slot pre-raid for fury warriors is already in the game, unlike is the case for most other classes, especially casters. Warriors are going to be top notch dps for the entirety of Classic.
Lol, that guy must either be talking about another game (???) or he must've been drunk haha. What a shitshow.
That's a good point. I do remember there being a lot of churn back then. That's part of what is going to be weird about classic, no back and forth as classes get buffed and then nerfed into the ground every few months as blizzard flailed around trying to find a class balance. We're gonna be living in a snapshot.Gensei wrote: ↑4 years agoOne issue in clearing this up was that it was a mixed bag throughout vanilla. Warriors were always a tremendously powerful PvP class, and were initially just okay in PvE as dps, but dual wield fury was a really weak spec. It later got buffs and talent updates, and by the end of vanilla, with better knowledge on itemization and the buffs, fury warrior dps was very strong.
An original WoW developer who was head of class balance said that if not for BC on the horizon, they would have nerfed warrior dps in a later 1.XX patch. It's quite strong. If you go to Wowhead's character planner, and only look at Phase 1 gear, you'll find that much of the gear that is best in slot pre-raid for fury warriors is already in the game, unlike is the case for most other classes, especially casters. Warriors are going to be top notch dps for the entirety of Classic.
I just noticed something else.
> Protection Paladin
> Reasonable taunting
u w0t m8
Isn't one of the things against a prot paladin is the lack of taunts at all? Obviously not the only negative, but definitely on the list is *no taunts*.
Maybe he meant the aoe damage over time spell they have to aoe aggro...not sure if he knows his terms
I mean Taunt is a warrior ability and paladins have none...
EDIT: Reasonable AoE Aggro??? I think i am reaching
| Nýxt - Demonology Warlock | Kirtonos PVP | Level 50 | - | Awkaran - Resto Druid | Kirtonos PVP | Level 20 |
| Fatherbatch - Holy Priest | Kirtonos PVP | Level 1 | - | Reignmaker - Frost Mage | Kirtonos PVP | Level 1 |
Dude, Fury Warrior is the highest dps melee class in the game.
You should burn that thing with fire and scold whoever shared it with you. That's some Fake News level of nonsense.
Also this has to be a troll post. There's zero way this makes any sense. It throws prot warrior and holy priest up there just to give some passing credibility and then just takes the piss the rest of the way down.
Besides the obvious issues here, I love that the "argument" for assassination rogue being c tier in PVE is because they don't bring anything valuable to PVP lol.
I mean this is my argument in favor of more content added, or at least that people shouldn't dismiss the idea outright. Vanilla WoW existed along a timeline and went through many changes, and we're only getting single, thin slice of it. We're not playing back in the day before Moonkin form existed, or whatever else. And we're not progressing through those earlier patches.Pippina wrote: ↑4 years agoThat's a good point. I do remember there being a lot of churn back then. That's part of what is going to be weird about classic, no back and forth as classes get buffed and then nerfed into the ground every few months as blizzard flailed around trying to find a class balance. We're gonna be living in a snapshot.Gensei wrote: ↑4 years agoOne issue in clearing this up was that it was a mixed bag throughout vanilla. Warriors were always a tremendously powerful PvP class, and were initially just okay in PvE as dps, but dual wield fury was a really weak spec. It later got buffs and talent updates, and by the end of vanilla, with better knowledge on itemization and the buffs, fury warrior dps was very strong.
An original WoW developer who was head of class balance said that if not for BC on the horizon, they would have nerfed warrior dps in a later 1.XX patch. It's quite strong. If you go to Wowhead's character planner, and only look at Phase 1 gear, you'll find that much of the gear that is best in slot pre-raid for fury warriors is already in the game, unlike is the case for most other classes, especially casters. Warriors are going to be top notch dps for the entirety of Classic.
It's important to remember contingency. The game we're getting in classic was contingent on the context of Blizzard's development and ideas at that very moment. It's also important to point out that Kevin Jordan said that many changes to classes would have gone into the game if Blizzard was not pooling lots of changes together to ship with Burning Crusade. Most hybrid class specs were going to be buffed, including prot paladin, and fury warrior dps was going to be nerfed, as previously mentioned. Devs were uncomfortable with the fury warrior out dpsing rogues. They reworked rogue talents in patch 1.11 to help rogues scale a bit better with gear so that warriors did not pass them up in damage as easily, but it wasn't enough.
This is what makes me think its a troll post that was mostly a hodge-podge of lazy copy+pasta. Especially that all rogue specs are in bottom tier. Besides the obvious other stuff.
I've heard crazier shit said on this very forum... There are a large portion of opinionated people who think they know an awful lot about Classic and a good portion of them havent even played the game. Its very strange.
2000 IQg0bledyg00k wrote: ↑4 years agoNever making a single investment again until I 100% know it pays off.
There's an argument that suggests because everything about this game is already known, all or most players will be much better this time around. The counter argument is that there is a lot of just bad information out there. And the catch is you'd have to already know better in order to determine what is accurate and what is crap. I think the noise to signal ratio could be pretty bad, resulting in a lot of players being just as bad now as they were back in the original gameStfuppercut wrote: ↑4 years agoI've heard crazier shit said on this very forum... There are a large portion of opinionated people who think they know an awful lot about Classic and a good portion of them havent even played the game. Its very strange.
Let's all roll prot pally for their reasonable taunting.
I still think players will be a lot better on average, and there are plentiful guides that, even if some are bad, are still provide more information than a lot of players back then had.Pippina wrote: ↑4 years agoThere's an argument that suggests because everything about this game is already known, all or most players will be much better this time around. The counter argument is that there is a lot of just bad information out there. And the catch is you'd have to already know better in order to determine what is accurate and what is crap. I think the noise to signal ratio could be pretty bad, resulting in a lot of players being just as bad now as they were back in the original gameStfuppercut wrote: ↑4 years agoI've heard crazier shit said on this very forum... There are a large portion of opinionated people who think they know an awful lot about Classic and a good portion of them havent even played the game. Its very strange.
Let's all roll prot pally for their reasonable taunting.
I was originally in the firm no changes camp a long time ago when classic was first launched. But over the past several months I came around to being open about developing the game into a Classic+ concept. If we just moved onto TBC, then we'd be in the same situation of playing within a static snapshot. The game is a bit more alive when there are small changes taking place.Gensei wrote: ↑4 years agoI mean this is my argument in favor of more content added, or at least that people shouldn't dismiss the idea outright. Vanilla WoW existed along a timeline and went through many changes, and we're only getting single, thin slice of it. We're not playing back in the day before Moonkin form existed, or whatever else. And we're not progressing through those earlier patches.
It's important to remember contingency. The game we're getting in classic was contingent on the context of Blizzard's development and ideas at that very moment. It's also important to point out that Kevin Jordan said that many changes to classes would have gone into the game if Blizzard was not pooling lots of changes together to ship with Burning Crusade. Most hybrid class specs were going to be buffed, including prot paladin, and fury warrior dps was going to be nerfed, as previously mentioned. Devs were uncomfortable with the fury warrior out dpsing rogues. They reworked rogue talents in patch 1.11 to help rogues scale a bit better with gear so that warriors did not pass them up in damage as easily, but it wasn't enough.
I'd definitely be open to class rebalancing over time. Minor rebalancing to make some spec viable - like oomkins, prot paladins, ret paladins, etc. I do not want to see all the classes blend together so everybody can heal, every class can tank, specs can be changed on the fly... I don't want any of that, class differentiation and flavor is important and needs to be preserved. I would be open to some of the broken specs being buffed to make them viable though. But at the same time power creep would have to be kept in check too, I don't want content to be nerfed on accident as the character specs get buffed along the way. There's a fine balancing act and the nochanges crowd fears that blizz would get it wrong.
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