I agree. The average skill will be better. But there's definitely a lot of noise that is going to result in people chasing bad specs and still not quite knowing what they're doing.
Yeah. At least for me, most of my changes would be pretty incremental. All I have in mind is some small talent changes to make non-viable specs a bit better (Elemental shaman just needs a mana regen talent and for Nature damage to be included in Curse of Elements, for example), and additional raid content both succeeding Naxx but also succeeding AQ20. It'd be pretty cool if there was a 20 man progression path for a small guild of close friends. UBRS and 5 mans -> ZG ->AQ20 -> New 20 man #1 -> #2Pippina wrote: ↑4 years ago
I was originally in the firm no changes camp a long time ago when classic was first launched. But over the past several months I came around to being open about developing the game into a Classic+ concept. If we just moved onto TBC, then we'd be in the same situation of playing within a static snapshot. The game is a bit more alive when there are small changes taking place.
I'd definitely be open to class rebalancing over time. Minor rebalancing to make some spec viable - like oomkins, prot paladins, ret paladins, etc. I do not want to see all the classes blend together so everybody can heal, every class can tank, specs can be changed on the fly... I don't want any of that, class differentiation and flavor is important and needs to be preserved. I would be open to some of the broken specs being buffed to make them viable though. But at the same time power creep would have to be kept in check too, I don't want content to be nerfed on accident as the character specs get buffed along the way. There's a fine balancing act and the nochanges crowd fears that blizz would get it wrong.
There's a pretty good number of places for these too that were all originally in the old world. Grim Batol is a great example, as are other places later added in Cata, but Blizzard probably had different ideas for initially. Uldum was also intended to be a raid, and there's yee old Dragon Isles which I think Blizzard is finally getting around to using in BFA. And then there were 3 different iterations of Karazhan, and the 3rd version was used for BC, the earlier versions were scrapped, but Kara was originally intended to be part of vanilla.
Overall, I'm very much in favor of Classic+ with another tier or two of 40 man raiding, two more 20 man raids for its own progression path and tiny, small buffs to non-viable specs that may not disrupt play at the high end but will make them far more viable for most players and especially casual players. Heavy deference to changes/content that was originally intended for vanilla and didn't make it in. And guild banks. That's about it.
Gensei - Shaman, Bloodsail Buccaneers
What was the old UBRS raid size? I know it was at least a 10-man originally, but was it a 15 man? I don't remember anymore. But back in the original game I wasn't raiding, and small group content like 5 man dungeons and even up to the original UBRS was my game. It would be pretty cool if there were a few more small UBRS sized 10/15/20 man raids added in eventually for people going that path. I wouldn't target it to compete with the bigger raids in terms of gear output, but more of an extension of the smaller group content you mentioned. I'm also onboard with adding stuff like Kara and other additional big 40 man raid content. Lots of options to fit within the original framework and design philosophies of the game.Gensei wrote: ↑4 years agoYeah. At least for me, most of my changes would be pretty incremental. All I have in mind is some small talent changes to make non-viable specs a bit better (Elemental shaman just needs a mana regen talent and for Nature damage to be included in Curse of Elements, for example), and additional raid content both succeeding Naxx but also succeeding AQ20. It'd be pretty cool if there was a 20 man progression path for a small guild of close friends. UBRS and 5 mans -> ZG ->AQ20 -> New 20 man #1 -> #2
There's a pretty good number of places for these too that were all originally in the old world. Grim Batol is a great example, as are other places later added in Cata, but Blizzard probably had different ideas for initially. Uldum was also intended to be a raid, and there's yee old Dragon Isles which I think Blizzard is finally getting around to using in BFA. And then there were 3 different iterations of Karazhan, and the 3rd version was used for BC, the earlier versions were scrapped, but Kara was originally intended to be part of vanilla.
Overall, I'm very much in favor of Classic+ with another tier or two of 40 man raiding, two more 20 man raids for its own progression path and tiny, small buffs to non-viable specs that may not disrupt play at the high end but will make them far more viable for most players and especially casual players. Heavy deference to changes/content that was originally intended for vanilla and didn't make it in. And guild banks. That's about it.
Big problem with a Classic+ concept is everybody seems to want something different. But I keep hearing about how oldschool runescape gates new content by putting it up to a community vote. And they require 75% super majority approval before they even begin developing new stuff. This could be a good mechanism to keep the crap out here too.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, people are going to get bored faster than they think, even if for some people that means years instead of months, and when that time comes, the best solution for adding new content will definitively be putting it up to a community vote.
Protection paladins are S tier? In my experience, paladins are shat on if they're anything except Holy.
and both Arms and Fury warrior were a popular choice and pretty great for Naxxramas, so I don't understand what they're doing at the bottom of the list
| Kazumi[33] - Frost Mage, Wetpaint[49] - Prot Warrior | Golemagg PVP|
From a purely Vanilla standpoint, having not played much classic since, I was able to tank well and DPS well as a 5/31/15 warrior. It wasn't difficult to do, especially at the time. I eventually went full fury, though, and just ravaged everyone. So yeah, as it's been stated, that chart is absolutely incorrect.
Anyone who uses "S" and "S+" as tiers is automatically wrong. Tiers begin at A.
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I disagree with everyone here. Prot paladin is S tier which is correct. Ya'll are just salty. New meta's are coming out and its time to get with the times. Reroll prot. Go go go. Fury warriors suck, I played one and was stuck at the top of the chart. It was boring how viable I was. Don't play fury warrior.
You're actually just straight-up wrong.Black Monarch wrote: ↑4 years agoAnyone who uses "S" and "S+" as tiers is automatically wrong. Tiers begin at A.
<MKULTRA>
SoD RP-PvP
SoD RP-PvP
I guess the main point here being their track record. They have homogenized all classes by trying to truly 'balance' all the classes and specs. Prot paladin shouldnt have a taunt, Druids shouldn't have an out of combat resurrect. They are hybrids, they have their other utilities. Don't get me wrong, there are some broken specs that could be fixed, but trying to make everything balance/optimal etc. doesn't work without killing the game.
Lvl 60
Lvl 35
Sure, but raid content in the old vanilla style seems like a really, really safe bet. I think you can get supermajorities on board with that.Pippina wrote: ↑4 years ago
What was the old UBRS raid size? I know it was at least a 10-man originally, but was it a 15 man? I don't remember anymore. But back in the original game I wasn't raiding, and small group content like 5 man dungeons and even up to the original UBRS was my game. It would be pretty cool if there were a few more small UBRS sized 10/15/20 man raids added in eventually for people going that path. I wouldn't target it to compete with the bigger raids in terms of gear output, but more of an extension of the smaller group content you mentioned. I'm also onboard with adding stuff like Kara and other additional big 40 man raid content. Lots of options to fit within the original framework and design philosophies of the game.
Big problem with a Classic+ concept is everybody seems to want something different. But I keep hearing about how oldschool runescape gates new content by putting it up to a community vote. And they require 75% super majority approval before they even begin developing new stuff. This could be a good mechanism to keep the crap out here too.
Gensei - Shaman, Bloodsail Buccaneers
You dropped this:Caspus wrote: ↑4 years agoI disagree with everyone here. Prot paladin is S tier which is correct. Ya'll are just salty. New meta's are coming out and its time to get with the times. Reroll prot. Go go go. Fury warriors suck, I played one and was stuck at the top of the chart. It was boring how viable I was. Don't play fury warrior.
/s
Lvl 60 Lvl 35
anyone know if an undead fury warrior will do a lot less DPS than a human or orc making use of their weapon skill racials?
Moonkin might be able to get under that....snickerwicket wrote: ↑4 years agoas much as I hate to say it, everyone says my precious enhancement shaman will never be a contender
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