I would like to hear your opinions on this subject presented in this video. I was thinking about this quite a lot and in the end I have to say that I agree with Melderon on this.
I suggest to watch the whole video.

It isnt exploiting, it is a part of the game.

Did not see the video yet but I would made them not available in raids. When you join the raid, you will not get world buffs and those you already have would disappear.

I have also not watched the video yet but some world buffs I feel like was very much intended for raids, in particular the onyxia/nefarion head buffs.

If you think one of the most common pre-raid preparations you can do is an exploit you're an idiot.

There's nothing else to say and I won't sugar coat it

s1atan wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Did not see the video yet but I would made them not available in raids. When you join the raid, you will not get world buffs and those you already have would disappear.

After some consideration I would leave them in. Vanilla is all about the: time investment is much more important than skill, and this fits right into it. So if guild decide they want to get world buffs, why not let them?

I don't think they're an exploit but they definitely are stronger than they should be, raidlogging is a problem they cause as well. I hope that Onyxia and Nefarian buffs are truly on a locked cooldown, this alone will make them irrelevant considering their cooldowns will be based around the first person on the server to turn the quest in.

I hope they keep world buffs how they were in Vanilla and don't cater to the private server style of distributing them. If they are cleared from players upon entering a raid that would be nice too. The game is easy enough, farming and using consumeables is fun (unless you're required to flask for easy content) but world buff saving isn't, I can remember some times when I just wanted to play but couldn't because I got a 10% DMF buff a few days before raid.

I'm going to play classic like punk music should be played, no tuning of any instruments!
Do you need world buffs to raid? Pansy!

I feel like these opinion pieces are always so evasive and safe. They identify an issue: Raids are too easy. Then they avoid highlighting the actual problem: The difficulty of raids. They try to find "issues" that they feel contribute to the problem of raid difficulty, in this case that is world buffs. They create an opinion piece that is safe... An opinion piece that #nochanges may be more inclined to accept. Change world buffs. Remove them. Add more. It wont matter. The content is trivial.

Lets outline the ACTUAL issue here, raids are far too easy. Raid contents difficulty should be ramped up by 10-20% (just an estimate, I havent looked into the actual numbers) to account for modern computers/internet connections, modern information and drastic improvement on overall player skill. When I say "difficulty" that is very vague. I would be okay with additional mechanics being added (most bosses are simple tank and spanks), addons like DBM being disabled, boss hp/damage being altered, world buffs being reduced or removed (I would prefer if they were reduced, I like the idea of the world PvP conflict that is associated with traveling to get world buffs), additional penalties to raid content (ex. players who die take an additional 10% durability damage) or any other change that serves to increase the base difficulty of the game and promote longevity to the project.

World buffs? Really? These guys feel like THAT will impact the challenge of raiding...? You wont need world buffs. In most cases you wont even need a full raid of 40 players. In the case of MC, those players wont all need to be 60 and most of them will be sporting green items. World buffs? We're scratching the surface of the issue......... This is another example of guys who are #nochanges trying to have an opinion about a clear issue (raid difficulty) but they have already labeled themselves as #nochanges so they are trapped. "The game has a clear problem, that problem requires a change, but im nochanges... what now? Guess ill offer a roundabout solution to a contributing factor to the problem and try to twist my definition of nochanges so that I dont get consumed by the people who believe in the same slogan that I do..."

I remember our guild killing onyxia, get the world buff then head to Molten core.
Or kill Nefarian, get the world buff then head to AQ40.
We never like got all or many world buffs before heading to naxx or something

I mean what if they only allow 2 world buffs on at a time, something like that?

The only issue I have with world buffs is that they do little, or next to nothing, for certain classes. Ex: Hunters.

So in some ways world buffs contribute to certain classes being more valued than others. (Paladins and all that spell crit? Dang! But Priests and Druids...meh.)

Stfuppercut wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Lets outline the ACTUAL issue here, raids are far too easy.

They are too easy for some people, the min/maxers and speedrunners. The Raids in WoW are designed to be completed by a more common denominator of people than that, at least up until AQ40 for sure.

I don't believe we need to remove / nerf world buffs in general - rather, why don't they introduce a 'hard mode' or 'ironman guild mode' for raids that choose to follow it? You could use that mode to restrict world buffs of all kinds.

If your next question is "why would I make things harder for myself by opting into a harder game mode while others don't have to?" we don't need to implement tier / iLevel rewards to make it enticing. Simply add social armor (tabards, mounts, w/e) and chat indicators (special icons / colors) for ironman guilds, along with a scoring system, and you've got a reason to complete to be the best without inflicting your opinions on the rest of us.

See: https://oldschoolrunescape.fandom.com/wiki/Ironman_Mode for RS' example. It works.

World buffs are absolutely no exploit but let's talk about the world buff meta a bit.

In vanilla (and classic) you had a cooldown on world buffs, like 2 hours on the onyxia/neff one and 6 hrs on warchiefs blessing. You can turn in the quest anytime and get the rewards, but the buff won't be cast if on 'cooldown'.

On light's hope pservers there is no cooldown, so any turn in results in a world buff.

That leads to a couple of issues, like raids claiming it's mandatory to have world buffs to get an invite.

But while most world buffs be removed on death's they are without doubt a big performance buff and will spoil people into overachieving in raid encounters they are not really ready to do.

In addition, because some in the hardcore crowd claim them to be mandatory, others add raiding time for getting world buffs, which in the long run would be better invested into learning the encounters.

So overall they are a double egded sword imo, and I appreciate any raid that keeps them as an option not a necessity.

The guy makes very solid points in the video. I would not be opposed to his solution (entering a raid removes world buffs) if for nothing more than to fight the raidlogging issue. For those who want to argue against his points without watching the video... watch the video so your feedback isn't pointless.

After watching the video I think world buffs are not an exploit. Yes they provide a lot of stats to raids and this eases the raids, but hey, if you don't like them don't use them. Besides, as more people already said the problem is not on the world buffs but on the raid difficulty, this is a game with 15+ years on it's back and the content that was very difficult back then now is easy because people has learned a lot through the years.

Could world buffs become a problem? I don't think so, yes they make raids more easy than they already are, but having all world buffs for every raid you play from now on needs a continuous effort for players (at least) in form of time. I just don't really agree in some of the points they make about casual guilds pursuing world buffs. A lot of these world buffs are not going to be on classic from the start and when they arrive they won't be a problem for the majority of the player base