^

Inb4 Hardiness

Depends on what you're playing.

In terms of a tier list, I'd say S rankings go to Orc, Undead, Gnome, and Dwarf.

Playing undead mage is mandatory, real vurtne hours

Hardiness by a wide margin. Hardiness is the best choice definitively.

It depends on class but overall my tier list goes like this:

S tier: orc
A tier: undead, gnome
B tier: dwarf
C tier: Tauren, nelf
D tier: human
F tier: troll

jodon wrote: ↑

5 years ago

It depends on class but overall my tier list goes like this:

S tier: orc
A tier: undead, gnome
B tier: dwarf
C tier: Tauren, nelf
D tier: human
F tier: troll

So, as you all know, I play a Shaman. I'm currently the best geared Shaman in the world and I have multiple world DPS records on WowMeterOnline. So I go into this Battleground because I feel like gracing my battlegroup with my presence, right? Everyone is cheering as I enter. They don't bother putting down a mage table or healthstone because they know that they're not going to need it--I, the Darkness, has come.

So I cast Lightning Shield on myself, because that's what Shamans do. They call down MOTES OF ELECTRICITY FROM THE HEAVENS and they SURROUND THEMSELVES with DEADLY AMOUNTS OF LIGHTNING! All of my teammates are instantly electrocuted to death, but me? I merely bathe in the energy; it is my plaything. Even though my teammates are now charred corpses, they continue to cheer, because they know that I can solo this. The gates open. I run in. With Ghost Wolf, my movement speed is increased by

40% PERCENT

Horde sees me run by but they can't do anything about it because I'm a ghost and I'm wolfing at

40 PERCENT

a Blood Elf Paladin with Crusader Aura on bubbles and flees in terror when he sees me traveling at

40 PERCENT

They can hear the howl of my ghost wolf. They are all cowering--no, literally, they type the /cower emote and just stand there--as I cap the Stables. I cast WATERWALKING on myself--WATERWALKING, like Jesus, and I careen towards the Blacksmith. The Horde there see me coming and they just /afk the !@#$ out. I put down my totems before I start capping Blacksmith's flag. A Rogue tries to sap me--

BAM!

The Rogue is engulfed in flame as my Searing Totem SEARS him from the inside out! His leather clothing EXPLODES in a rain of fire that spirals around my beautiful female Draenei form as I continue to cap the Blacksmith. The fire rips through the Rogue's bones, but it doesn't even consider touching me--why? Because I've got

FIRE RESIST TOTEM

A Warlock swoops in in Demon Form and tries to Conflag me but his Conflag does 0 damage to me because of

FIRE RESIST TOTEM

A Troll Mage Slowfalls in and he Pyroblasts me but it is ineffective because of

FIRE RESIST TOTEM

Blacksmith caps. I mount up on my KAEL'THAS MOUNT--no, literally, I ride Kael'thas around, the Blood Elf--and head over to Farm, because I feel like eating some potatoes.

POTATOES. BOIL 'EM, MASH 'EM, STICK 'EM IN A STEW. AND HEARTS. SHAMAN DESIRES PALADIN HEARRRRRRRTS.

Just then, I see something through my Sentry Totem. It's the WoW General Forums! --People are complaining about how overpowered I am! They're saying that Shamans need to be nerfed. I smirk.

That's when I decide to take out my HAND OF RAGNAROS.

EIGHTY POINT FOUR DAMAGE PER SECONNNNND

I slam the Hand of Ragnaros down into the ground. Arathi Basin shatters like glass--the ground falls out from under me. The fabric of SPACE itself CRUMBLES beneath my feet. I cackle as I enter the REAL REALM, becoming a TRUE ENTITY existing ON THE PLANET EARTH. I am a Draenei walking around New York--the cops try to stop me, but they forget all about me when they take a gander at my

STONECLAW TOTEM

STONE AND CLAW COMBINED. CAN YOU TAKE IT?

But then, in the spaces between the gathering crowds, I see something. Someone. The smirk on my face deteriorates. .. it's one of the Horde. A Troll.

I thought I had destroyed Arathi Basin. I thought I had won the Battleground. But all that time--

--But all that time--...

.. there he was. Just standing there. Regenerating 5, health,

per

second.

I glared at the Troll.

The Troll glared back at me.

Silence flooded the world.

"And there's nothing you can do about it," the Troll whispered.

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Hardiness.

WotF beats Hardiness and here's why: WotF is an on-use ability that can both prevent and end Fear, Charm, and Sleep effects with a guaranteed result (as far as I know) for up to 5 seconds. Hardiness gives a 25% chance to resist only stun and while 25% (on top of additional stun resist) is a lot it still leaves a chance for you to be cc'd.
Think of it this way, I have never been stunned off the cliff in Arathi Basin (PvP) or stunned into a pack of adds (PvE). I have been https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=10912/mind-control Off the cliff in AB and have been Feared into adds. You'll be glad you can break fear when https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=18431/bellowing-roar sends you into a pack of https://classic.wowhead.com/npc=11262/onyxian-whelps and even more happy you can break https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=10912/mind-control when you get controlled, waved at by an entire alliance team, and then sent off to your death while they all laugh at you on the way down.

Cletus wrote: ↑

5 years ago

WotF beats Hardiness and here's why: WotF is an on-use ability that can both prevent and end Fear, Charm, and Sleep effects with a guaranteed result (as far as I know) for up to 5 seconds. Hardiness gives a 25% chance to resist only stun and while 25% (on top of additional stun resist) is a lot it still leaves a chance for you to be cc'd.

We had a good chat about the value of hardiness here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1337&hilit=just+how ... +hardiness
Just How Good Is Hardiness?

WoTF doesnt beat hardiness because it is an on-use. That logic is silly. Hardiness is 25% stun resist, bringing you to approximately 30% base stun resist with NO INTERNAL COOLDOWN. It is a passive, that is CONSTANTLY up and CONSTANTLY outvalues WoTF.

Concerning WoTF impact, it works against warlocks (under represented on alliance side fairly consistently), priests (shadow and serious PvP healers will rely more on their blackout procs than fear anyhow due to fear having a 15% base mana cost) and warriors who use FAR more stuns than fears. So in essence, WoTF will likely outvalue Hardiness IF you are fighting an alliance warlock. Outside of that, Hardiness will be better.

Cletus wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Think of it this way, I have never been stunned off the cliff in Arathi Basin (PvP) or stunned into a pack of adds (PvE). I have been https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=10912/mind-control Off the cliff in AB and have been Feared into adds. You'll be glad you can break fear when https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=18431/bellowing-roar sends you into a pack of https://classic.wowhead.com/npc=11262/onyxian-whelps and even more happy you can break https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=10912/mind-control when you get controlled, waved at by an entire alliance team, and then sent off to your death while they all laugh at you on the way down.

There are less fears/charms in the game than stuns. A lot less... I'll steal a snip of my post from the link above to shed some light on the stuns available: Hammer of Justice (paladin), Bear Bash, Pounce (druid), Intimidate, Improved concus shot (hunter), Impact (mage), Kidney shot, Cheap shot, Mace spec, Gouge (rogue), War stomp (tauren - duels), Intercept, Charge, Concuss Blow, Mace spec (warrior), Blackout (priest), various items like tidal charm (mandatory for high level pvp) and unstoppable force, grenades (used by all serious pvpers and top tier raiders)... I mean the list goes on and on... 30% chance to resist, no internal cooldown... Min/max pvpers will be going Orc if they are rolling horde.

We believed WoTF was superior in Vanilla. Many uninformed players STILL believe that on private. It's just not the case.

Hardiness is fucking amazing and annoying as fuck when playing alliance

Depends on the Situation and setup of your complete char.

aeh wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Depends on the Situation and setup of your complete char.

This is a fair point. I think that when we're posing the question "Which race has the best PvP racial in the game" as OP has, we're looking at the best racial overall. Which racial will serve you best in MOST cases and which racial will provide the highest value in MOST cases. We could sit here and think of hypothetical situations where war stomp would actually out-value hardiness if we wanted to (I really hope no one wants to do this, it would make me sad). No one here is contesting that every racial doesn't have it's place, but when considering which racial has the highest value, hardiness simply out-values everything else and will serve you better in the majority of situations.

Stfuppercut wrote: ↑

5 years ago

aeh wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Depends on the Situation and setup of your complete char.

This is a fair point. I think that when we're posing the question "Which race has the best PvP racial in the game" as OP has, we're looking at the best racial overall. Which racial will serve you best in MOST cases and which racial will provide the highest value in MOST cases. We could sit here and think of hypothetical situations where war stomp would actually out-value hardiness if we wanted to (I really hope no one wants to do this, it would make me sad). No one here is contesting that every racial doesn't have it's place, but when considering which racial has the highest value, hardiness simply out-values everything else and will serve you better in the majority of situations.

Okey I get the point, thats right!

res wrote: ↑

5 years ago

<ASCII Art>

Lmao. This thread really feels like 2006 now

There is nothing like watching a dead rogue not releasing his ghost so he can watch me slowly bleeding out, only to pop stoneform and teabag him with my rocky balls.

Samaraner wrote: ↑

5 years ago

There is nothing like watching a dead rogue not releasing his ghost so he can watch me slowly bleeding out, only to pop stoneform and teabag him with my rocky balls.

Can I please put this in my signature?

Feel free

Samaraner wrote: ↑

5 years ago

There is nothing like watching a dead rogue not releasing his ghost so he can watch me slowly bleeding out, only to pop stoneform and teabag him with my rocky balls.

This is the most hilarious thing I've seen. You will be famous on Barrens Chat. I might use this in my signature as well. BRILLIANT!

Orcs.

Followed by Gnomes and Undead for melee's, or Dwarf's in general.

Stfuppercut wrote: ↑

5 years ago

WoTF doesnt beat hardiness because it is an on-use. That logic is silly.

It's not silly when you are a mage and can blink out of stuns. See the bigger picture. Most valuable is subjective to who is using it. As a mage, if I am close enough to get war-stomped I deserve to die lol. I can agree that there are many ways to get stunned but I have found, through many years of personal experience, that WotF has been more valuable.
Also think of it from an offensive point of view where you use charge to close distance only to be feared a mile away and kited.

Stfuppercut wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Which racial will serve you best in MOST cases and which racial will provide the highest value in MOST cases.

I mean, you said it yourself. In MOST cases I don't have to worry about stuns so WotF provides the highest value in MOST cases.

Stompy stompy Tauren :) I love having the stun as a Druid, as it helps me lock down players/NPCs around me to get off a Regrowth/Rejuv to help survivability. Like Cletus mentioned, different strokes for different folks. Or at least, each racial has it's situation.

I'm a horde Druid, I have War Stomp.

Cletus wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Stfuppercut wrote: ↑

5 years ago

WoTF doesnt beat hardiness because it is an on-use. That logic is silly.

It's not silly when you are a mage and can blink out of stuns.

Mages cant be orcs.

Cletus wrote: ↑

5 years ago

See the bigger picture. Most valuable is subjective to who is using it. As a mage, if I am close enough to get war-stomped I deserve to die lol. I can agree that there are many ways to get stunned but I have found, through many years of personal experience, that WotF has been more valuable.

Hardiness has more value because there are more stuns. The classes that use fears still rely more on stuns, except for warlock. Hardiness provides more value in more circumstances and thus, is more valuable. The reasons why your years of experience would lead you to believe that WoTF is better could be for a variety of reasons... Perhaps you played Undead more than Orc? Perhaps you have primarily played horde so you arent aware of the impact of playing against hardiness? Or perhaps the onuse makes the validity of WoTF more apparent to you. Your confirmation bias will lead you to make note of events rather than non-events. Orc resists are often not noticed by players who are less aware, despite their unmatched impact.

Cletus wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Also think of it from an offensive point of view where you use charge to close distance only to be feared a mile away and kited.

If this comment is designed to make a case for WoTF for a warrior, you're insane. Warriors have a TON of answers to fears. Playing a warrior as undead may be the worst class/race combo possible from a min/max perspective.

Cletus wrote: ↑

5 years ago

I mean, you said it yourself. In MOST cases I don't have to worry about stuns so WotF provides the highest value in MOST cases.

Huh? There are more stuns in the game than fears. You will be stunned more than you will be feared. 30% stun resistance is definitively better than WoTF. By a wide margin... Very wide. About 9% of alliance players will be warlocks. WoTF gives you an advantage against 9% of players as a horde member. The other 91% of fights hardiness would have been better.

Stfuppercut wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Cletus wrote: ↑

5 years ago

I mean, you said it yourself. In MOST cases I don't have to worry about stuns so WotF provides the highest value in MOST cases.

Huh? There are more stuns in the game than fears. You will be stunned more than you will be feared. 30% stun resistance is definitively better than WoTF. By a wide margin... Very wide.

I can tell by your tone that you are confused. Just because there are more stuns in the game doesn't mean that I will be stunned more often. Like I mentioned earlier, mages can blink out of stun and that's if someone gets close enough to stun me.
This is the part where I revert back to your very own comment that I highlighted earlier. In most cases I will be more worried about fear. This, in the most simplistic way that I can express, means that WotF is more valuable to me.

Cletus wrote: ↑

5 years ago

I can tell by your tone that you are confused. Just because there are more stuns in the game doesn't mean that I will be stunned more often.

Thats precisely what it means. You will experience more stuns than you will fears.

Cletus wrote: ↑

5 years ago

Like I mentioned earlier, mages can blink out of stun and that's if someone gets close enough to stun me.

Blink the charge, get the intercept. Blink the cheapshot, get the gouge. Players arent confined to one stun. Its great that you have an answer for a stun. You will need it, because there are a lot of them. Mages cant be Orcs so im not sure where this conversation is going... If they could be Orcs, it would still be better, but they cant, so this is a senseless debate.

Cletus wrote: ↑

5 years ago

This is the part where I revert back to your very own comment that I highlighted earlier. In most cases I will be more worried about fear. This, in the most simplistic way that I can express, means that WotF is more valuable to me.

No. You will experience more stuns than fears. Hardiness would provide higher value. That isnt an option though because youre a mage. Mages cant be orcs.

Though my biggest argument against a mage going Undead would be https://vanillawowdb.com/?item=18850 Your trinket removes fears. Again, this argument is very silly because unfortunately for you, you cant go Orc mage. Would be super overpowered if you could though!

edit: spelling