What's the viability of a week 2 MC clear?
I could see hunters/druids/locks nolifing because fast leveling speeds week 1 but for warriors, priests, rogues, etc I'm not sure how viable it is.
Thoughts? I feel the gear requirement is less steep on 1.12 for an MC clear as long as you have 40 prepared people.
I believe <GRIZZLY> managed to pull a 12 day MC clear on Elysium. Definitely possible. I remember watching an interview with one of the former members and the key thing about it was that as soon as players got to 60 they stopped whatever they were doing and started helping others get to 60.
I think the possibility that we see guild groups fully clearing MC at the 2 week mark is low. First, I think there are many things that are currently taken for granted when it comes to leveling and preparing a raid group for a world first type of push. However, I feel that a motivated (and highly caffeinated) guild could potentially make this happen. Here are a few thing just off the top of my head:
1. Best case scenario: Motivated guilds should not have too much of a problem getting people to level 60 within 45-60 hours /played. They will, in turn, have to grind the other raiders up to 60. I would put this at 3-4 day if people are going sleepless. Give people a day to recover and you are looking at 5 days to get 40 people where they can start farming gear and leveling professions. Granted, there will be passive gear and profession gains during leveling. If the support for a 40 main raid is set by day 7-8 that still gives almost a full week to clear MC.
2. Worst Case Scenario: Everyone is starting from ground zero. 0 gold, 0 economy, level 0 professions. Enchants, flasks, crafted ear are all going to take a chunk of time to get to a point where they support a 40+ person effort. Foregoing some of these support mechanisms while jumping into MC on limited gear-grind time could be extremely detrimental to the raid effort. Ounces make pounds and in the world of raid prep those extra points in intellect and stamina are going to be crucial at this point in the game. Additionally, there will be little to no resources to pull from in regards to auction house or from other people or guilds who are still far back in the leveling process.
Without gold no one can repair. If no one can repair then that's it for the raid. A week's worth of wipes will clean out what little gold raiders will have at this point. Since everyone up to this point will have been pouring resources into the raid effort it is unlikely that their gold stores will be able to sustain costly repair bills let alone purchasing a mount (or epic mount).
Lastly, when was the last time you saw a world-first guild running a 40-person raid? I'm not saying an MC run can't happen in the first 2 weeks but I feel it is highly unlikely. Let this be a challenge to potential guilds! Take this time to recruit 50-60 people to be ready to crash into classic MC to get that world first Rag kill before the 3rd week!
here's an unpopular opinion:Cletus wrote: ↑5 years agoI think the possibility that we see guild groups fully clearing MC at the 2 week mark is low. First, I think there are many things that are currently taken for granted when it comes to leveling and preparing a raid group for a world first type of push. However, I feel that a motivated (and highly caffeinated) guild could potentially make this happen. Here are a few thing just off the top of my head:
1. Best case scenario: Motivated guilds should not have too much of a problem getting people to level 60 within 45-60 hours /played. They will, in turn, have to grind the other raiders up to 60. I would put this at 3-4 day if people are going sleepless. Give people a day to recover and you are looking at 5 days to get 40 people where they can start farming gear and leveling professions. Granted, there will be passive gear and profession gains during leveling. If the support for a 40 main raid is set by day 7-8 that still gives almost a full week to clear MC.
2. Worst Case Scenario: Everyone is starting from ground zero. 0 gold, 0 economy, level 0 professions. Enchants, flasks, crafted ear are all going to take a chunk of time to get to a point where they support a 40+ person effort. Foregoing some of these support mechanisms while jumping into MC on limited gear-grind time could be extremely detrimental to the raid effort. Ounces make pounds and in the world of raid prep those extra points in intellect and stamina are going to be crucial at this point in the game. Additionally, there will be little to no resources to pull from in regards to auction house or from other people or guilds who are still far back in the leveling process.
Without gold no one can repair. If no one can repair then that's it for the raid. A week's worth of wipes will clean out what little gold raiders will have at this point. Since everyone up to this point will have been pouring resources into the raid effort it is unlikely that their gold stores will be able to sustain costly repair bills let alone purchasing a mount (or epic mount).
Lastly, when was the last time you saw a world-first guild running a 40-person raid? I'm not saying an MC run can't happen in the first 2 weeks but I feel it is highly unlikely. Let this be a challenge to potential guilds! Take this time to recruit 50-60 people to be ready to crash into classic MC to get that world first Rag kill before the 3rd week!
lets not forget that all the top raiding guilds attempting this will also have to deal with getting each other right-click autobanned just to stay ahead of the others...same as with server first lvl 60 rush, farming spots, etc.
A 2 week clear on MC is (somewhat) possible. This feat of strength is entirely dependant on how the "world first race" is going at the time of release. If it is the low season, I could see the ultra-hard-core group jumping in on this.
Otherwise, the standard hard-core group is going to shine here and I believe that a 2-week kill is unlikely. Leveling is much more lethargic and unscripted. Gearing is much more challenging and slower than we are all used to.
A 3 week clear is definitely realistic, but its because we're "re-doing" encounters that we were familiar with a decade (plus) ago. Someone's got a dusty powerpoint or 240p video to bring to the fight. Versus the initial pulls, we all did with "do we de-curse that on everyone or just a couple key people"
Council Chairman
US-Horde
Blaumeux
I don't know how hardcore the guilds on Lightshope/Northdale/Elysium are, but for Kronos there were two very hardcore guilds and I expect that at least one of them will be able to pull together its members long enough again to do this on classic's release.
The alliance one dictated what race you were allowed to play for each class except Paladin, and I know the Horde one was likely doing the same if your class could be a troll.
The guilds were so focused on getting server first for MC that at least one of them wasn't even looting the bosses as it killed them.
It'll be cool to see if people manage it.
I have no interest in going that hardcore, and I don't have the life to even sustain an attempt. 
<Pertento> [EU-PvP]
Ya man, it's one thing to be a server first 60 and quite another to go server first in a raid. Getting 40 people to be on par for both will be an incredible feat inside the 3 week mark and exhausting inside a month. Good luck to those who make the attempt and may god have mercy on their souls and sanity.
While I have heard of these things on private servers, I do have my doubts for wow classic. Hitting 60 5 days after release should be considered extremely hardcore to be honest. The fastest time in vanilla was like 4 days 20 hours played? Adding in sleep etc..maybe a few people playing select classes can handle it per server. But 40 people? They can't all grind the same spots, and 40 hunters in greenies won't be doing any MC. Add to that that Ragnaros isn't just sitting there waiting..
You need to do the quests for the water to douse the runes to even get him to spawn, and that requires you to be honored with waterlords before you even kill Lucifron! That's a shitload of trash farming and resetting unless you can somehow kill bosses already in the first week, not to mention doing UBRS, also a place you can't just walk in with 10 hunters. Honestly, except for the very most hardcore of the hardcore there's no way I see this happening.
I really do wonder how so many people so confidently claim it can be done. Are private servers really that much easier?
I plan to clear MC in the 2nd week after release as half guild run.
We still need people btw ;)
The fastest MC that I know was after 9 days on Northdale Horde.
I'm genuinly curious here, how on earth would you do it that fast in classic? Are people account-sharing or something? Chainfarming instances? How'd you get 20 people to lvl 60 and ready to enter mc in a week? And provided you could do that, where'd you get 20 pugs?
I'll be lucky if I've done a full Deadmines run by the end of week 2!
ITT: People talking about pserver times, when all the pservers had dynamic loot/respawns for leveling. This speeds the process up A LOT!
MC shouldn't even be unlocked until 2 months after launch. Let people stop and smell the god damn roses without being punished for it by falling behind in the raiding rat race.
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This is part of why I'm so sceptical about this, and noone seems to be addressing it. A similar discussion happened on MMO champion and people tossed out stuff like "Yeah most people will easily be 60 in 48-60 hours so that leaves plenty of time.."
Eh? Fastest vanilla time was that famous 4 days and 20 hours one wasn't it? Think my personal record was a bit under 6 days, and was like with some rested xp and stuff. I'm by no means a proper speed-leveler, but 48 hours? Like, how do you even get to level 50 in that time? Don't think I've even seen level 40 in 48 hours..
But whenever I bring this up people just mysteriously bail the conversation, across like 4 different forums now.
If there is some miraculously fast way to level that nobody knew in vanilla that everyone on private servers now know inside out, then by all means let me stand correct. I'll happily have my face stepped into the dirt, foolishly wrong in my assumptions. But so far I've seen nothing but people dodging the question.
And I mean, if it takes you 5 days played time to get to level 60, on top of at the very least bare minimum sleep and chugging energy bars for sustenance, bringing your laptop to the bathroom to save time (but you still gotta wipe surely!?) etc etc I just cannot see people stepping into MC the first week at all, and that means a brutal amount of pre-lucifron trash farming if you want to be able to do Ragnaros that week.
I remember all too well in my old old old times guild how I was well ahead of the rest at lvl 60 and ended up indeed running trash farming pugs specifically for the rep. When the time came to seriously do MC, and we killed our merry way through, I had baaarely managed the honored rep as the only person in the guild, and so I alone could get the rune dousing quest item. Mind you, that was a one time use, so we needed to establish a chain of summoning to get me from Aszhara to MC, remove a rune, back out, summoned to Aszara for a new one, summoned back again, etc..
Are people just somehow forgetting you need honored with waterlords to be able to start the rune dousing quest, which requires you to kill the first bloody boss in the entire place? I just don't understand what I am missing.
If a group of powerlevers can get ahead and stay ahead of the curve it will help leveling times immensely because there is no competition on mob respawns etc. If you aren't ahead of the curve, it's going to take you 6-10 days played time without fucking around too much. That's my take on it at least.
Lvl 60
Lvl 35
2Weeks is possible but super super hard because you need also rep to summon majordomo. I think 3Weeks for the first clear is mire realistic
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Also, to expand on this. you need 39 OTHER people to be "poopsock" worthy as you. Along with have RNGesus loot drops. A LOT of stars have to align. On top of all of this, pservers might launch even smoother than some retail expansions. Fighting mob tag competition, server crash, server DCs, server queues, all of this it going to really expand the speed run to 60.
With regards to the rep you can farm elementals in silithus to get honoured, then you can do the quests for the trash drops and the hands from the flamewalker bosses during the raid. Generally the fastest way is to tell your fastest leveling mage to start aoe grinding rep in silithus when he's near hitting 60. Then you can set up a summoning rotation so that the one guy can go back and forth from Azshara.
Another big obstacle is having enough fire resist gear on the main tank so he can do Ragnaros, but this is just one guy and if he's a completely nosleep hardcore guy and gets fire resist boes funneled to him this is pretty easy. Everyone else needs GFPP for Rag so someone needs to get the potion recipe from LBRS and farm a few herbs.
A full MC clear will take about as long as it takes a completely hardcore guild with a roster full of people planning on 30 hour + sessions to hit 60 and run a few dungeons to get the absolute minimum gear - I know of at least 2 guilds like this that will be trying to kill a few bosses in MC week 1. This will probably be about 8-10 days after launch.
You wont need 40 players to clear MC. You wont even need your entire roster to be 60. In regards to Pserver launches... Competing with 12k active users at any given time is not outweighed by dynamic respawns, ESPECIALLY if you are on a pvp server, which is the only option on private. Trust me, depending on how/if Blizz implements sharding for launch, Classic will be a complete breeze to level in compared to private. I havent looked into the specific implications of no progressive itemization during pre-bis, but that will also be a crutch in Classic that was not available on private as your guild gets drops during your MC clear. Farming consumes and world drops like devilsaur will also be incredibly easy on Classic compared to private where the server had about 30-40k players logging in periodically; peak time is ALL the time on private and this is painful for collecting herbs and resources.Sams wrote: ↑5 years agoAlso, to expand on this. you need 39 OTHER people to be "poopsock" worthy as you. Along with have RNGesus loot drops. A LOT of stars have to align. On top of all of this, pservers might launch even smoother than some retail expansions. Fighting mob tag competition, server crash, server DCs, server queues, all of this it going to really expand the speed run to 60.
The only thing left are boss values... Many boss values on private are spoofed based on extrapolated data and old combat logs. What does this mean? It means private is either very close to vanilla's values, private is potentially easier than vanilla was OR private may just be a little bit more challenging than vanilla was and Classic will be.
*An important point is also pets. Hunters are very important for speed clears. Hunter dps is nutty with Lupos, and all signs are pointing to Lupos being in his final state without shadow damage. This will hurt hunter dps and depending on raid comps, this could present issues for some guilds.
Overall I could see MC being cleared on the first lockout by guilds like Method who are already recruiting for their roster. Guilds like this have an immense amount of resources at their disposal, all the time in the world for players who live in gaming houses and are full time players and then the advantages of having each of those streamer audiences pooling resources towards their success.The preparation and time investment to an early Classic clear is nothing compared to what these guys are doing in retail. The average hardcore guild will see bosses down within 1-2 weeks and a rag kill within 2-3. On most servers MC will start being pugged by the 6 week mark so if you want to get in fast, spend some time getting up that Waterlord rep because pre-BiS wont necessarily gain you a spot but douses certainly will.
Or, people can play at their own pace and not be dictated by others on how to experience the game?Black Monarch wrote: ↑5 years agoMC shouldn't even be unlocked until 2 months after launch. Let people stop and smell the god damn roses without being punished for it by falling behind in the raiding rat race.
I would think that Blizzard would have the boss values tuned quite high initially to curb 2 week clears. It's going to be a tough ask with no DM gear as it stands, but if they are also tuned harder it will be very challenging indeed.
Lvl 60 Lvl 35
Obviously the content wont be tuned harder at the start of the game.
for everyone here, see viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2105
A lot of this is covered in there. I think week 2 full MC clear is highly likely, I will be surprised if it doesnt happen.
Couple things to remember:
1. Beta numbers show dungeon grinding being really good xp/hour. arguably better than questing.
2. Because dungeon grinding looks so good, leveling and gearing are not mutually exclusive, but instead done simotaniously. most time can be spent in dungeon grind groups 52-60
3. /Played to 60 will likely be lower on classic than on PS's. A number of things in classic appear to easier on classic than PS, such as dungeons granting more xp/kill and mobs being significantly easier to kill in many cases overall.
4. Leveling routes have been min/maxed to an extent far more than orriginal release. Joanna was able to run 4.5 days /played to 60 on orriginal release, these routes were more secretive and harder to get access to back then. Now they are more or less public knowledge, been improved on, and the harder to level PS's have seen people hit < 4 days /played.
5. I cant verify this, but most people say reg grinds and attunement can be done pre-60 while level grinding too. Also, others in the linked thread above have stated this can be done in as little as 2 hours.
6. By the raw numbers, it's possible, but unlikely, to be done in week 1. Def possible in week 2.
The hardest part about this is organizing 40 people and getting them to all commit to this. (although you dont need a full 40)
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